Engraving Forum.com - The Internet's Largest and Fastest Growing Engraving Community

The Internet's Largest and Fastest Growing Engraving Community
Discuss hand engraving using basic to the most advanced methods and equipment
Forum Members: 14,763. Welcome to our newest member, mtan1446
EngravingForum.com - Domain since Feb 7, 2003

Graver Video Conferencing is empty Join now!


Go Back   Engraving Forum.com - The Internet's Largest and Fastest Growing Engraving Community > Forums > Lindsay AirGraver Info - Hand Engraving Forum
ENGRAVING TOOLS - Paypal accepted Classes Glossary Feedback Tips Sharpening Bulino Videos Forum Policies

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-14-2008, 05:43 AM
Phil Coggan Phil Coggan is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Posts: 899
Default Bulino Templates

Yes it is possible to to create the work below with a 'Coggan' 'Cortini' etc. Template, but the gravers are not magical tools. You have to have a certain amount of artistic skill to start with, having said that they do give you a head start, and they take the guesswork out of the 'am I sharpening it right' situation!

Phil
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...lcog/ELEFm.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-14-2008, 09:23 AM
SVD's Avatar
SVD SVD is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,555
Default Re: Bulino Templates



That's the key once again, isn't it Phil?

Your bulino point lets me make the lines you make - as the other styles let me make other lines, but it's still up to me to do something with those lines.

Ah well, even if I can't do that I can still use those lines for things that are within my more limited artistic skills. And if I keep practicing, perhaps someday...
__________________
Enjoy!

Steve :->
(KCSteve in most forums)
SVD's Photo Album
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-14-2008, 09:46 AM
Steve Lindsay's Avatar
Steve Lindsay Steve Lindsay is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kearney, NE
Posts: 4,555
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Phil, Is this point to make lines too or is it just for dots and short dashes? Do you have another point with a small heel that you use for lines in scenes?
Steve


__________________
__________________________________
Steve Lindsay
AirGraver.com
EngravingArtist.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-14-2008, 10:37 AM
Phil Coggan Phil Coggan is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Posts: 899
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Steve,
This does it all! In game scenes it's good for long and short ultra fine lines, also for medium deep lines ie. the left hand shaded edge of the ele scene, dot work, in fact everything you need for a gamescene.
I also used it for the fine shading lines on the scroll in the picture.
Oh! and it's also good for lettering. All my gun naming is done with this tool.
It can be used for a complete letter or by combining it with a flat.

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-14-2008, 11:14 AM
Steve Lindsay's Avatar
Steve Lindsay Steve Lindsay is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kearney, NE
Posts: 4,555
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Thanks Phil, But how does the point keep from diving when cutting lines since it doesn't have a heel? I talked with a print maker engraver once that said he didn't use heels on his gravers and I didn't understand how he kept the point from diving.
__________________
__________________________________
Steve Lindsay
AirGraver.com
EngravingArtist.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:21 PM
Phil Coggan Phil Coggan is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Posts: 899
Default Re: Bulino Templates

If it does start to dive you just drop down to a shallower angle, it might take a bit of getting used to after a heel, I find that mine never dives, i've used one from scratch if you pardon the pun, in fact for game scenes I find the heel makes the tool too steep and uncomfortable.
All I can say is try it and see.

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-14-2008, 04:05 PM
Dave London's Avatar
Dave London Dave London is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 2,360
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Phil
Thanks for the graver design the Elephant practice plate I posted was done with your point and all hand pushed in copper real soft. Was easy to go deep or light. I will add a lot more detail when I try it in steel. Thanks again Dave
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-14-2008, 10:09 PM
Ken Hurst Ken Hurst is offline
Gold
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Robersonville, N.C.
Posts: 186
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Mr. Phil, how does this tool handle on curves ? I tried your design a month or so back but had differculities making tight curves --- am I doing something wrong ? For straight lines and shallow curves, it's great. Many thanks for sharing ! Ken
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-15-2008, 02:06 AM
Phil Coggan Phil Coggan is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Posts: 899
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Ken, it should work on curves, but it's not designed for DEEP tight curves.

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-15-2008, 02:33 AM
Herman Knives's Avatar
Herman Knives Herman Knives is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 260
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Phil, Do you have to sand the shading cuts back a bit to get rid of burrs or just leave them? I know the 70 degree Italian bulino tool requires sanding it back and am curious as if you do this also. Thank you and wonderful work as always. Rock&Roll!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-15-2008, 04:17 AM
Phil Coggan Phil Coggan is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Posts: 899
Default Re: Bulino Templates

On the majority of lines you should'nt get any burrs, you might get slight ones on deeper tight curves.
Game scenes are not sanded back at all, this is very important. I also don't sand back the shading lines on scrolls, if there are any, they will be very very small.

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-15-2008, 10:48 AM
Steve Lindsay's Avatar
Steve Lindsay Steve Lindsay is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kearney, NE
Posts: 4,555
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Phil,

I just realized something. The graver I used to use for bulino dots was just a straight shank on the bottom without a heel. If I were to try and cut a line with it I would have needed to hold the graver perfectly horizontal to the surface. This bulino graver you use is tapered on the bottom and not straight with the shank. Effectly the taper is a shallow very long heel. So for cutting a line the taper on the bottom is raising the angle of attack. Anyway, I just tried cutting some fine lines with it and you're right it works great


Steve
__________________
__________________________________
Steve Lindsay
AirGraver.com
EngravingArtist.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-15-2008, 11:03 AM
Phil Coggan Phil Coggan is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Posts: 899
Default Re: Bulino Templates

:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-18-2008, 10:42 AM
mckeenh's Avatar
mckeenh mckeenh is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Stevensville, Mt
Posts: 812
Wink Re: Bulino Templates

When I was in Italy and visiting some big name engravers I made a comment about there being no heel on their tools and they looked at me like I had two heads. I understand the dot picking method now and have cut some lines with a tool with no heel. It takes alot of practice to do bulino in steel.

Phil, in the example you posted it looks like the tool is a flat but I assume that is just a problem with the graphics. I assume the tool is a point.

Neil:yesnod:
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-18-2008, 12:40 PM
Phil Coggan Phil Coggan is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Posts: 899
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Yes Neil the tool does have a point. If you look at Steve's graphics you will see that it has a diamond shape face, but I have noticed that after a few beers this can look flat
The angle of the face I think is 45 degrees, this can be steepened by up to about 10 degrees for harder metal.

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-18-2008, 08:54 PM
mckeenh's Avatar
mckeenh mckeenh is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Stevensville, Mt
Posts: 812
Wink Re: Bulino Templates

Well I didn't have a few beers but it could just be these old eyes, I maybe should use my optivisor.

Thanks Phil

Neil:yesnod:
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-18-2008, 10:17 PM
kguns kguns is offline
Gold
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 140
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Lindsay
Phil, Is this point to make lines too or is it just for dots and short dashes? Do you have another point with a small heel that you use for lines in scenes?
Steve


Phil and Steve,

This is the exact shape tool I use for almost all cutting, Modified larger or smaller face of attack depending on cut size desired. Works well for Buliono & Puntinni, ( Dots, picking method, maybe a little flatter face of attack but much the same). It may have something to do with us guys with a Hammer & Chisel background.
__________________
Kurt Horvath
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-19-2008, 08:51 PM
Steve Lindsay's Avatar
Steve Lindsay Steve Lindsay is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kearney, NE
Posts: 4,555
Default Re: Bulino Templates

I heard Italians sharpen their bulino this way too. Phil's and Dario's are basically the same. Just different angles. The templates make both as well as other various points easier to sharpen since there is no guess work remembering one point's angles to the next.
Steve
__________________
__________________________________
Steve Lindsay
AirGraver.com
EngravingArtist.com
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-19-2008, 09:47 PM
diandwill diandwill is offline
Steel
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Deer Park, north of Spokane, WA USA
Posts: 66
Default Re: Bulino Templates

This looks to be a 60 degree. Is that right?, or what angle is it?
Thanks, Will
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-19-2008, 09:55 PM
WVEngraver's Avatar
WVEngraver WVEngraver is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,656
Default Re: Bulino Templates

I thought this was rather interesting. It's out of an old book on engraving (late 1800s, early 1900s I think).

Very much the same.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg graver.jpg (35.5 KB, 419 views)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-20-2008, 02:04 AM
Phil Coggan Phil Coggan is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Posts: 899
Default Re: Bulino Templates

There you go...and all these years later, the same tool and the same way of sharpening.
As for the angles, Dario's and mine would be slightly different, in fact if I sharpen by hand no two would be exactly the same. It is very difficult when holding the tool against a grindstone wheel to be accurate.
This is the benefit you get with Steve's templates.

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-21-2008, 08:14 AM
Phillip Phillip is offline
Steel
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14
Default Re: Bulino Templates

I watched many Italian engravers work in Brescia. And in the words of Dario there are as many ways to sharpen a graver as there are engravers. Perhaps it is because God did not make all of our hands the same shape.

While using an Italian graver there is always a chance of losing control and gouging into the metal. It is a little like riding a bike.

Steve if you recall the graver I sent you that Dario ground out for me the bottom of the v was mostly removed leaving only a small part of the v at the cutting end as I recall perhaps a 1/16 inch at the most. This is what is used to creat clearence.

As far as making dots, dashes, and lines; a line is only about .0005 of an inch in width. A dash is a short line and a dot is a line as wide as it is long.

I will try to get photos the next time I am in Italy for you guys.

Phillip
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-21-2008, 01:35 PM
Phil Coggan Phil Coggan is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Posts: 899
Default Re: Bulino Templates

My tool has the bottom PARTIALLY ground away,and there are two reasons for this.
One... it allows the tool to be dropped when it starts to dive.

Two... when sharpening by hand (not templates) with an oil and Arkansas stone, you need a certain amount of 'Flat' area on the sides of the tool to stop it from rolling.

All the engraving that i've posted on this forum has be done with this tool, scroll, gamescenes, portraits and inlay.

I have been using it (Push & Hammer) for twenty six years and if you use it correctly, it won't dig in.

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-21-2008, 03:20 PM
Steve Lindsay's Avatar
Steve Lindsay Steve Lindsay is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kearney, NE
Posts: 4,555
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Thanks again Phil and Phillip for the help with these points and templates. The person that cuts templates has Dario's bulino and Roland's inlay templates finished and they are ready to be picked up in town. It is raining here again today and the weather channel says we may get 6 to 8 inches of snow tonight. It is too early for snow! Phillip, please yes take more pictures next time you're in Italy. I have the ones you emailed in July of Dario and another engraver using the template sharpener. Would it be ok for me to post these? Thanks again, Steve
__________________
__________________________________
Steve Lindsay
AirGraver.com
EngravingArtist.com
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-22-2008, 04:40 AM
Phillip Phillip is offline
Steel
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Yes of course please use the photos.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-22-2008, 10:33 PM
Steve Lindsay's Avatar
Steve Lindsay Steve Lindsay is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kearney, NE
Posts: 4,555
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Thanks again Phillip. Here are the photos of Dario.






__________________
__________________________________
Steve Lindsay
AirGraver.com
EngravingArtist.com
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-04-2010, 07:38 PM
Don Don is offline
Copper
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Draper, UT
Posts: 2
Default Introduction

I am "new" metal engraving, however, have been a glass engraver for several years having engraved glass for several companies as well as in my studio. I know the excellence of this group and the great engraving that so many do. My congratulations to each of you and especially to Steve for his hard work and his incredible engraving and tools. Looking forward to being a part of the group. Don Tate - Draper UT
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-02-2010, 03:59 PM
Eric Watson Eric Watson is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 208
Default Re: Bulino Templates

The flat on the bottom how close to the tip do you grind this. Does this work like a heel so it would be fairly close to the tip or farther back. I used the graver without the bottom portion ground out and it does great straight lines. I stumbled into this chat on it's grind and found out there is a bottom to the graver. I seen the flat on the template but did not utilize it. So now I wish to know how much or how little.
Phil I like this graver even without the bottom ground ( my stuff doesn't look as sweet as yours though )
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-10-2011, 04:53 PM
pedroito's Avatar
pedroito pedroito is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Madrid Espaņa
Posts: 274
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Hi Phil, I received your template, today I wonder if you can use to make shadows, I'm new in this world, and all are questions for me.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-29-2011, 02:14 PM
Don Curtis's Avatar
Don Curtis Don Curtis is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New River, Arizona
Posts: 311
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Which graver blank is best for Bulino being done on Guns? Carbalt, M42, or HSS?

Donny
Harleyart
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-29-2011, 03:13 PM
Steve Lindsay's Avatar
Steve Lindsay Steve Lindsay is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kearney, NE
Posts: 4,555
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Hi Donny,

When you can get away with it use carbalt but the more narrow of V graver angle you make (fragile of point) the chance the carbalt point will break increases. If the point is breaking first dub the point slightly and see if that helps but if the point is still breaking go with the M42. The carbalt will hold an edge longer than M42 but it is more fragile than M42 or HSS.

Here is a chart showing pros and cons of each.

__________________
__________________________________
Steve Lindsay
AirGraver.com
EngravingArtist.com
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-25-2013, 12:41 PM
myazel myazel is offline
Platinum
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: indiana
Posts: 563
Default Re: Bulino Templates

Does the little flat where the other templates have a point at the bottom of the "V" serve any purpose in the use of the template? I bought one a while back and want to give this grind a try and making sure I do it right.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-27-2016, 11:26 PM
Omar Haltam's Avatar
Omar Haltam Omar Haltam is offline
Steel
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 65
Default Re: Bulino Templates

thank you Phil and Steve for all the great information, it will help greatly in the coming years of practice.

~Omar
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Conduct
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.