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  #1  
Old 03-04-2009, 09:08 PM
Tim Wells's Avatar
Tim Wells Tim Wells is offline
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Default Experimental transfer film results

I'm going to start a new thread for the folks I've sent these experimental films to test on their respective brands of printers, so that they can post the results they get in one location. This way it won't get spread all over the place in several threads and later when someone old or new to the forum asks a question on results of this they can point to one location in a search.

If possible, I'd like to reserve this thread just for the results so that it doesn't become cluttered with other stuff. Keep checking back to see what the testers are finding out good or bad.

I still need a few more volunteers. I have the HP printers with Vivera ink and the Epson with Dura Brite ink covered, so anyone who knows how to transfer well with this method that uses another brand of printer, I can send a sheet or two and you can post the photo results in this thread.

Again, the outcome doesn't matter good or bad, I just need all to do their best with it and post an honest opinion with photos of the test piece. PM me or email for instructions on how to help. Thanks, Tim
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2009, 06:00 PM
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WVEngraver WVEngraver is offline
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

First .... The need to use the "black only" setting with an HP printer that uses the Vivera ink is patently false.

Second ... The experimental transfer film provided by Tim Wells should be compared with the Epson film, that is, with the film that Transfer Magic was originally designed to work with.

For anyone interested in acquiring a current and readily available printer that works ... the HP 5580 All-in-one is $139.00 at Staples. It uses the following cartridges: a #74 Vivera black and a #75 color. It works with XP, Vista, MAC and Linux. It also has a limited Windoze 2000 driver for network printing only. If you're as biga fan as I am of monopolistic marketing companies that just happen to sell problematic products on the side ... you might get it just for the Linux driver .

The following images were transferred to a steel plate polished to 800 grit and are the following (left to right):

1. The original image I used which was scanned from an early 19th Century book. I selected a line engraving illustration specifically because Brian Marshall found it particularly humorous.

2. A transfer, printed with composite black, on Epson film using an older HP Photosmart P1000. Some older HP printers do not use Vivera black cartridges (only standard black) but will accept a Vivera color cartridge. A successful transfer using "black only" with this printer is impossible.

3. A transfer, printed with "black only", on this experimental stuff using the currently available HP5580. A transfer using composite black with this printer produces (on the same film) lighter results that are workable for most images but are not suitable for transferring a high level of detail.

4. A transfer, printed with composite black, on the experimental stuff. This "test" was simply for my own personal amusement .... it actually kinda works.

Transfers with the Vivera ink composite black (using the color cartridge to produce black) are lighter but it does work. Transfers using the experimental stuff are significantly lighter all around but still very good as the comparison with the obsolete, Epson composite transfer illustrates.

It would be good to know when and where this "experimental" stuff is going to be made available.

As a side note. Mylar does not work at all with this level of detail and the 3M brand gave me 1 out of 3 transfers. That one being actually darker and better than the experimental transparency film. It's just a matter of consistent burnishing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg hogarth_fiddler01.jpg (70.4 KB, 165 views)
File Type: jpg Viveracompositeblack_epson.jpg (97.9 KB, 159 views)
File Type: jpg Viverablackonly_brandX.jpg (82.5 KB, 150 views)
File Type: jpg Viveracompositeblack_brandX.jpg (96.4 KB, 162 views)
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  #3  
Old 03-15-2009, 03:42 PM
Tom White Tom White is offline
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

Tim,
As promised here are my results with your film. It would do no good to do a side by side with the Epson films as they are no longer available so what I have posted here are only pics of transfer with the test film.
Here are a couple of transfer facts.
1. No matter what printer you use you need to have PIGMENT based black ink. The Epson DuraBrite and the HP Vivera inks are pigment based. Dye based inks will not transfer or will not transfer well.
2. YOU must know how to set YOUR printer to use black ink only.

I tried my Canon but it failed it is dye based ink I was sure it would not work but I gave it a try anyway.

That said here is what I used on these transfers.
A. Epson printer with DuraBrite pigment based black ink the model or tank number is not important the INK is.
B. Test films provided by Tim Wells
C. Transfer Magic solution
D. White test transfer solution

The attached images show the results of the transfer tests. The images on the left of the sample block are on white test transfer solution, the images on the right of the sample block using transfer magic. On the knife the material is polished stainless. The scroll on the bolster is on Transfer Magic solution and the scroll on the blade is white test solution.

Tim overall the results were very good I think this film is a winner and will replace the Epson films with no problems.

Tom White
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_8296aa.jpg (76.9 KB, 216 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8297aa.jpg (72.0 KB, 197 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8298aa.jpg (83.5 KB, 182 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8299aa.jpg (29.2 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8300aa.jpg (46.5 KB, 188 views)

Last edited by Tom White; 03-15-2009 at 03:57 PM. Reason: correctness
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  #4  
Old 03-20-2009, 10:16 AM
KnifeEngraver KnifeEngraver is offline
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

Tom's transfers look great... Chris Malouf's are a little iffy. Is the difference in the transfer solution? It would have been really cool if all the testers were transfering the same image. I see that Tom is testing using two different solutions (both his), the 'white test transfer solution' and his normal solution. They both show great detail but the white is outstanding!
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2009, 10:29 AM
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WVEngraver WVEngraver is offline
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

I should have specified that I did not hold a white background above the steel plate when taking the photos. There is also no doubt that Tom White's Epson printer produces the best results while the HP produces slightly lighter transfers. Besides, since he developed the solution and best combination of products that work, he's a lot better at this procedure than most of us.

Part of the test was to illustrate that printing with HP composite black does in fact work ..... contrary to original beliefs as the rule kinda got carried over from the Epson printers.

also ... there is some image prep that can be done in Photoshop to eliminate gray areas in the image prior to printing on the film. This will also produce a sharper transfer with better contrast. I did not alter the scanned image in my previous post.

I hope the following photo helps prove my explanation. The original scan of the William Hogarth line engraved illustration was Photoshopped by adjusting highlight, shadow and midtones prior to printing. A white piece of copy paper was then held above the plate while the photograph was taken. Note that the transfer uses HP Vivera "black-only" ink and the "experimental" film. I have used a line engraving illustration because a transfer like this is a great way to practice and learn this type of engraving technique for self study.

-----

KnifeEngraver .... you bring up a very valid observation and I hope that Tim Wells does not remove your post from this "results only" thread.

The "white" appearance that Tom White's transfers have can be mis-interpreted as something on the metal itself when, in fact, it is simply a white refection to give better contrast for the photo. I am using his "Transfer Magic" stuff which, in my opinion, is the best stuff available.

-----

I will freely admit that I have tried to be a non-biased consumer advocate regarding Tom White's product ... at times against the product until it has been proven beyond doubt, that the product will work as well as (if not sufficiently close to) the Epson film it was originally designed for. Of course I come out looking like the "bully" bad guy but ultimately, that is to your benefit.

I believe that those who have purchased Transfer Magic can continue to use it with confidence despite the discontinuance of the Epson film and those that are thinking of buying it will know that there is a product that will work well with it. Many thanks to Tim Wells for doing some digging and finding this "experimental" film and I look forward to learning when and how the new film will be made available. Perhaps as a product which can purchased through Steve's site.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Viverablackonly_brandX_whitebk.jpg (47.4 KB, 68 views)

Last edited by WVEngraver; 03-20-2009 at 10:40 AM. Reason: added
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2009, 04:11 PM
Tom White Tom White is offline
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

Chris,

The white is actually a white solution I am developing and have sent out to a few to be tested with thier printers and techniques. I had no extra lighting or reflectors in the pictures. It is actually a white transfer media and to date has tested very well. It cuts without chipping or flakes and gives high contrast easy to see transfers.

Tom White
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2009, 04:30 PM
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WVEngraver WVEngraver is offline
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

Ummm ok (scratch scratch) .... Why does the image transferred with the original stuff appear to have a white reflection? It's evident on the right side of the test block in photo #1. This is getting confusing ....
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  #8  
Old 03-20-2009, 04:49 PM
Tom White Tom White is offline
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

Chris,
I am not sure what you are seeing as far as reflections go unless it is just the overhead lighting in my shop. There was no flash on the camera so I am not sure what you see. The only thing I know is the ones that look white are white.

Tom
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  #9  
Old 03-20-2009, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

Hi Tom,

I figured that photo #3 is a closeup of the right side of the plate in photo #1. It looks right in #3 but it looks white in photo #1.

I dunno .... we're using different solutions, different printers & inks, different images, different lighting and photography settings.

Maybe posting test results like this and comparing them is frivolous. Conducted as independent tests using a common film is what folks need to see this thread as.

All I know is that it works pretty darn well with your old stuff and the new film. It ain't like the Epson but it will do what I'm looking to do and that's to practice tracing some of these old line illustrations to get the hang of the cuts. The clear solution is ideal for that. As I'm satisfied that it is still the best, I'll certainly recommend your product.

I've also learned that the HP color cartridges will produce an image and Photoshopping the image prior to printing makes the image transfer better ... I didn't need to do that with the Epson. I still have 59 sheets of Epson film left and that should carry me for awhile. Thank-you for clarifying the lighting thing.

I'll catch ya later Tom. I think I've done all I can with this "test" .... which doesn't appear to be whole heckuva lot . I'll be in the bunker loading ammo. If anyone has any more questions I can be reached by homing pigeon for next couple of weeks.
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Old 03-23-2009, 08:32 AM
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Tim Wells Tim Wells is offline
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

OK, I've waited as long as I can for folks to post their results on these film tests. I've been bombarded with emails, and PM's from inquiring minds that want to know where I got them so here we go.

Whatever printer you currently have success in using the Epson films on should give good results with these transparency films. All the effort I put into this was just to find a suitable substitute for the now unavailable Epson films. These films are designed for use with Ink Jet printers using dye based ink such as Dura Brite and Vivera among others.

These films come in a box of 50 only. The price is $36.00 if you mention this forum, otherwise they cost more. Here is the contact info:

Eastern Data Paper
Contact is Tom James
1-800-524-2528

Part# EBG32

They accept Visa/Master card
sales@easterndatapaper.com
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:13 AM
Matson Matson is offline
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

I am new to engraving and am anxious to try and cut an image. I ordered the transfer magic and have epson film. My first and only attempt yielded less than spectacular results...my inexperience..not the solution. When burnishing, is the burnisher made out of metal, plastic, wood?? Thanks to everyone who post photos of their work, you are an inspiration to all that endeavor to seek perfection.
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  #12  
Old 03-31-2009, 12:35 PM
Andy Andy is offline
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Default Re: Experimental transfer film results

Tim,
I am sorry to take so long to try this stuff. I have just been too busy. I only tried it for the first time today and my results were not good. I use an Epson C-66 black ink only. It transfers 100% when using the Epson brand film. For me the new stuff would barely transfer anything even using a heavy burnishing force. It seems I have had much better results with other brands in the past. If I get a chance I will try some of those. By the way I started with my own Bulleyes mixture which works well with the Epson film and then tried Tom's solution. They both seemed to fail about the same with the new brand of film.
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