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  #1  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:25 PM
Chris Botha's Avatar
Chris Botha Chris Botha is offline
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Default interesting perspective

I stumbled onto this website on my travels and was interested to learn that the slamming of CAD and CNC by traditional "hand makers" in the jewellery world is also prevalent in the engraving world, with "traditionalists" considering air tools not to be valid. Having tried to teach myself this skill I cannot concur with the authors view that anyone can pick up an air tool and create "fine lines that are lacking in hand".. an artist can create art, simple. and it makes no difference what tool he holds IMO..



Quote:
Why authentic hand engraving? The many years required to develop the hand and eye coordination necessary for traditional hand engraving cannot be avoided. Electric powered or compressed air "engraving" tools wedded to a 20x micrcroscope will cut a lot of very narrow lines with a minimum amount of skill required by the operator. The claim that employing an electric or air powered tool is "hand engraving" is inaccurate from the perspective of the general public. For example, "hand polished" is not the result of polishing using a polishing wheel because the part is held in the hand.
His views are neither here nor nor there, I come up against this all the time in my area of expertise. it was intersting for me tho how far along the technology path you need to be to be considered NOT hand made.

So is this the path from REAL hand engraving to NOT hand engraving

1: Scratch grooves in a rock face with a stone
2: Scratch grooves in wood and stone with forged steel
3: scratch grooves in wood and stone and alloyed metals with forged metal
4: Same as 3 but with a hammer.
5: Airgraver Assist FREEHAND no patterns
6: AirGraver over a transfer DRAWN BY HAND
7: Airgraver over internet download transfer
8: CNC scribe then Airgraver of YOUR HAND DRAWN art
9: CNC Scribe then Airgraver of other art
10: CNC Engrave outright of own artwork (roland mpx, impact, laser etc)
11: CNC Engrave outright of other artwork (roland mpx, impact, laser etc)


Slippery slope of what exactly defines hand engraving? I draw the line at excluding 11 completely and #10 is iffy depending on whether you consider drawing the artwork as being "hand skills".. would it be less hand skilled if you used a computer graphics program to draw the art?

just a thought
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  #2  
Old 08-31-2012, 08:35 PM
redgreen redgreen is offline
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Default Re: interesting perspective

Just my opinion but Art is any expression meant to communicate. It may not be Fine Art but it is Art. The person you quoted is most likely someone who thinks they must pull others down to rise up. Ask them a few questions and you most likely will find out their 'hand work' only goes so far. Tools do not define an artist, an artist is not a tool, from a stone to a computer only the artist knows if it belongs on the palette. It's your work I don't think anyone should let others define what is permissible or possible. As long as they just want to spit and sputter about how they are the only true artists who cares, it's when they start with the demands is when it irks me.

Check out Roger Bleile's Glossary on Hand Engraving, I think he has it right. Who cares if the tools you use are 'hand tools' or not? If you use them and someone wants to say it's not Art who cares? Your customers and your taste should be all that matters.

Bob
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  #3  
Old 08-31-2012, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: interesting perspective

This was brought up on the other forum a couple of years ago. It kinda took on the direction of unsolicited critiquing which many have regrettably walked into at one time or another. Bob has got one way of looking at it. The other, is giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. It is evidently what he believes so the question is how does one educate about engraving without being critical of another man's blood n' sweat and how he does things. It's impossible so the answer lies simply in the quality of work and what the individual buying the work believes, sees and likes. As engravers, all we can do is strive to do our best to get as much of that best into the hands of those who appreciate and value it.
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  #4  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:46 AM
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Chris Botha Chris Botha is offline
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Default Re: interesting perspective

yeap, I hear you.. I used to get angry/defensive/irritated by this same nonsense concerning cad manufacturing versus hand forging, but I dont care anymore, I simply do what I do, as best as I can, and get paid.. My children cant eat ideals or traditions, they need food, bought with money..

So I go on earning it any way I can

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  #5  
Old 09-03-2012, 04:55 AM
Vbj Vbj is offline
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Default Re: interesting perspective

It's results that count . There is a charm and appeal to hand engraving that is unmistakeable, but the world is changing, and there are certainly more aids and short cuts than there were even a decade ago. If you take every shortcut from laziness, your work will probably drown in a sea of mediocrity. If you hold onto being a purist, you might marginalise your talent ( but that's an individual call for sure). I just didnt think much of many of the somewhat brainwashed 'purists' I saw coming out of design schools in Aus, and I belived the future lay with neither them nor the somewhat blinkered trade students. If you can get a beautiful result in a reasonable time frame, you're onto a winner.
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  #6  
Old 09-03-2012, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: interesting perspective

Nicely outlined - this is an eternal argument.
My 2 cents is that there is a pendulum in constant swing between artistic uniqueness and scientific reproducibility - and the poles refresh each other.
Nimble artists strive for pan-fluency in the application of various non-electrical and electrical/technology-assisted means to achieve unique pieces.
Artists also put food on their tables by swinging tolerably towards convenient methods and reproducible works.
Fluency = fun, in or out of power failures.
Warm regards to all - Bob M
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  #7  
Old 09-05-2012, 01:32 AM
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Chris Botha Chris Botha is offline
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Default Re: interesting perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vbj View Post
It's results that count . There is a charm and appeal to hand engraving that is unmistakeable, but the world is changing, and there are certainly more aids and short cuts than there were even a decade ago. If you take every shortcut from laziness, your work will probably drown in a sea of mediocrity. If you hold onto being a purist, you might marginalise your talent ( but that's an individual call for sure). I just didnt think much of many of the somewhat brainwashed 'purists' I saw coming out of design schools in Aus, and I belived the future lay with neither them nor the somewhat blinkered trade students. If you can get a beautiful result in a reasonable time frame, you're onto a winner.
PERZACKETLY!

talking of brainwashed design students, i have a meeting with some of them from CSU next week to discuss my thoughts on the future of jewellery in Australia, 5 students are coming down for a seminar and asked me to pencil in some time for them.. GH will be addressing them as well regarding RJC in Aus via Skype conference..

think YJG woudl LOVE to be flies on that wall.. but honestly I am not sure what i can tell them that wont depress them somewhat? I dont know how the industry absorbs "artists" versus artisans.. dont think there would be many "designer" positions around for uni students with negligible hand skills?


Sigh.. Sometime i tire of this "allknowing superguru" costume ive been painted with because people dont want to hear the truth, they want to hear what their perspective of it is... and I usually cannot produce that for them, so they shoot the messenger.. im tired of the rhetoric..




But , back on topic, its interesting to see this old versus new is prevalent in all areas of our trade..

SOOO.. let me stick my neck out to get it chopped again..

I have been browsing the "get together" photographs in the gallery section, and it seems to be mostly .. uhhh.. more *mature* gentlemen at these meets..

is this because

1: Engraving is in the domain of older users
2: Gun Engraving is in the domain of older users
3: young fellas dont go to meets, but they are around..

?
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2012, 09:59 AM
redgreen redgreen is offline
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Default Re: interesting perspective

Wow Chris you don't know why all engravers seem to be old? The ability to engrave is tied inexplicably to the size of the prostate gland. I'd have mine checked if I were you, you seem a little young to have a prostate that size.

Bob
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  #9  
Old 09-05-2012, 10:55 AM
chujybear chujybear is offline
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Default Re: interesting perspective

Maybe those parties army geared to younger gravers
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  #10  
Old 09-05-2012, 02:22 PM
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Chris Botha Chris Botha is offline
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Default Re: interesting perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by redgreen View Post
Wow Chris you don't know why all engravers seem to be old? The ability to engrave is tied inexplicably to the size of the prostate gland. I'd have mine checked if I were you, you seem a little young to have a prostate that size.

Bob
dont joke... my doc has been on me for a checkup since i turned 40.... trying to avoid it...
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  #11  
Old 09-05-2012, 04:51 PM
redgreen redgreen is offline
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Default Re: interesting perspective

Joke? What joke, you'd better head for the doc.

Bob

PS, I've decided to quit taking my prostate meds. I intend to be a master before I explode.
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2012, 08:52 PM
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Chris Botha Chris Botha is offline
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Default Re: interesting perspective

nuh uh.. im not going.. i refuse..

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